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	<title>Comments on: Appointed Son of God?</title>
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	<link>http://www.colossiansthreesixteen.com/archives/2146</link>
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	<pubDate>Mon, 12 May 2008 16:24:18 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: JakeT</title>
		<link>http://www.colossiansthreesixteen.com/archives/2146#comment-235076</link>
		<dc:creator>JakeT</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Mar 2008 14:47:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.colossiansthreesixteen.com/archives/2146#comment-235076</guid>
		<description>On a related note, this is post is interesting to me--it gets at what I was thinking about this Easter, particularly in light of trying to explain the whole thing to my 5 year old, namely that we tend to focus all of our energy (the rest of the year) on Jesus' death, but Paul seems to think the real turning point is not Jesus' death but his resurrection.

His death is certainly illustrative and perhaps spiritually powerful, but it's his resurrection that makes Christianity about life and not about death.

Never mind the fact that we spend a lot more time talking about 'Jesus dying on the cross,' as Jonah puts it, and not so much about Jesus being more powerful than even death (to boil the resurrection down to one aspect).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On a related note, this is post is interesting to me&#8211;it gets at what I was thinking about this Easter, particularly in light of trying to explain the whole thing to my 5 year old, namely that we tend to focus all of our energy (the rest of the year) on Jesus&#8217; death, but Paul seems to think the real turning point is not Jesus&#8217; death but his resurrection.</p>
<p>His death is certainly illustrative and perhaps spiritually powerful, but it&#8217;s his resurrection that makes Christianity about life and not about death.</p>
<p>Never mind the fact that we spend a lot more time talking about &#8216;Jesus dying on the cross,&#8217; as Jonah puts it, and not so much about Jesus being more powerful than even death (to boil the resurrection down to one aspect).</p>
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		<title>By: Euphranor</title>
		<link>http://www.colossiansthreesixteen.com/archives/2146#comment-235067</link>
		<dc:creator>Euphranor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Mar 2008 13:05:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.colossiansthreesixteen.com/archives/2146#comment-235067</guid>
		<description>Chris, 

I don't think it is an oxymoron unless you assume that atonement just is salvation. I would say the atonement is meaningless to you apart from union with Christ, which seems to be the issue for Paul rather than "did Jesus die for me" it is "am I in Christ" through faith.  So the death of Christ provides atonement for all sinners but unless you are united with Christ through faith you are damned. For the damned, the fact that Christ took their place on the cross becomes further condemnation for Christ to judge the lost world by virtue of his having suffured for that same lost world.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chris, </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think it is an oxymoron unless you assume that atonement just is salvation. I would say the atonement is meaningless to you apart from union with Christ, which seems to be the issue for Paul rather than &#8220;did Jesus die for me&#8221; it is &#8220;am I in Christ&#8221; through faith.  So the death of Christ provides atonement for all sinners but unless you are united with Christ through faith you are damned. For the damned, the fact that Christ took their place on the cross becomes further condemnation for Christ to judge the lost world by virtue of his having suffured for that same lost world.</p>
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		<title>By: links for 2008-03-25 &#171; regeneration</title>
		<link>http://www.colossiansthreesixteen.com/archives/2146#comment-235057</link>
		<dc:creator>links for 2008-03-25 &#171; regeneration</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Mar 2008 03:37:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.colossiansthreesixteen.com/archives/2146#comment-235057</guid>
		<description>[...] Colossians Three Sixteen » Appointed Son of God? I thought this was a good article on Jesus&#8217; &#8216;appointment&#8217; as the son of God. (tags: Jesus sonofGod theology scripture Bible colossians316) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Colossians Three Sixteen » Appointed Son of God? I thought this was a good article on Jesus&#8217; &#8216;appointment&#8217; as the son of God. (tags: Jesus sonofGod theology scripture Bible colossians316) [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://www.colossiansthreesixteen.com/archives/2146#comment-235056</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Mar 2008 01:46:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.colossiansthreesixteen.com/archives/2146#comment-235056</guid>
		<description>Brent, this reminds me of the sermon I heard on Sunday...well said.

In reponse to Euphranor...I think this is a great example of the type of distinction the doctrine of limited atonement is trying to make.  I do not mean this rudely, but to say that Christ died for those in hell, or atoned for the sins of those in hell, seems to be an oxymoron.  If your sins are (graciously) atoned for, you are not in hell (praise God).  If they are not atoned for, hell is the just punishment for sin.  Limited atonement does not mean limited Godness, or limited Kingness (is it okay to make up words here?).  It just defines the specific purpose of Christ's death.  Maybe we could even call it "specific atonement"?  I'd like to hear others thoughts.  Brent?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brent, this reminds me of the sermon I heard on Sunday&#8230;well said.</p>
<p>In reponse to Euphranor&#8230;I think this is a great example of the type of distinction the doctrine of limited atonement is trying to make.  I do not mean this rudely, but to say that Christ died for those in hell, or atoned for the sins of those in hell, seems to be an oxymoron.  If your sins are (graciously) atoned for, you are not in hell (praise God).  If they are not atoned for, hell is the just punishment for sin.  Limited atonement does not mean limited Godness, or limited Kingness (is it okay to make up words here?).  It just defines the specific purpose of Christ&#8217;s death.  Maybe we could even call it &#8220;specific atonement&#8221;?  I&#8217;d like to hear others thoughts.  Brent?</p>
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		<title>By: Euphranor</title>
		<link>http://www.colossiansthreesixteen.com/archives/2146#comment-235043</link>
		<dc:creator>Euphranor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Mar 2008 19:51:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.colossiansthreesixteen.com/archives/2146#comment-235043</guid>
		<description>This is my point exactly: Jesus is King over everyone (even those in Hell) which (I think) means that He must have (in some sense) died for those in hell. If that reasoning is correct then doesn't that count against limited atonement because how can Jesus have a universal reign but a limited atonement?  The possibility or impossibility of salvation for the non-elect is open for people on both sides the atonement debate, my primary interest is the relation between the atonement and the rule of Christ. Also I guess I would say his resurrection is the Father's affirmation of His claim to be king because we know there is no begining or end to His rule and the whole idea of inaugeration is sort of confusing to me but that too is a different matter than the atonement/reign issue at hand. Hope that makes some kind of sense and thanks again for the interesting post.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is my point exactly: Jesus is King over everyone (even those in Hell) which (I think) means that He must have (in some sense) died for those in hell. If that reasoning is correct then doesn&#8217;t that count against limited atonement because how can Jesus have a universal reign but a limited atonement?  The possibility or impossibility of salvation for the non-elect is open for people on both sides the atonement debate, my primary interest is the relation between the atonement and the rule of Christ. Also I guess I would say his resurrection is the Father&#8217;s affirmation of His claim to be king because we know there is no begining or end to His rule and the whole idea of inaugeration is sort of confusing to me but that too is a different matter than the atonement/reign issue at hand. Hope that makes some kind of sense and thanks again for the interesting post.</p>
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		<title>By: Brent</title>
		<link>http://www.colossiansthreesixteen.com/archives/2146#comment-235039</link>
		<dc:creator>Brent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Mar 2008 18:58:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.colossiansthreesixteen.com/archives/2146#comment-235039</guid>
		<description>Well, but isn't Jesus even King over those in Hell? I don't see that this implies salvation or even the possibility of salvation for the non-elect, just that His resurrection seems to be the inauguration of His reign.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, but isn&#8217;t Jesus even King over those in Hell? I don&#8217;t see that this implies salvation or even the possibility of salvation for the non-elect, just that His resurrection seems to be the inauguration of His reign.</p>
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		<title>By: Euphranor</title>
		<link>http://www.colossiansthreesixteen.com/archives/2146#comment-235038</link>
		<dc:creator>Euphranor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Mar 2008 18:03:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.colossiansthreesixteen.com/archives/2146#comment-235038</guid>
		<description>Good points: I wonder if there isn't something to your logic, and I am specifically thinking here about the last paragraph, that counts against limited atonement. If Jesus is appointed king of the world by virtue of his death and suffering, that seems to me to imply that his death and suffering had to be for the world. Otherwise, why is He king of the world and note merely the elect?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good points: I wonder if there isn&#8217;t something to your logic, and I am specifically thinking here about the last paragraph, that counts against limited atonement. If Jesus is appointed king of the world by virtue of his death and suffering, that seems to me to imply that his death and suffering had to be for the world. Otherwise, why is He king of the world and note merely the elect?</p>
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